Friday, January 04, 2008

Impressive



so overdue, but so much better than I imagined it would be when it happened....

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31 Comments:

Blogger George said...

Yes! An amazing turnout for the Dems.

A pic from Spiegel.de sez it all.

1/04/2008 10:16:00 AM  
Anonymous ondine said...

LOL, George Will already spinning this as 'an end to racism in America'. "When a 97% white state votes for a black man it proves there is no racism in America."

Oh it's going to be a nasty and negative race, especially when they start really going through Obama's past (You think he's been vetted properly while being protected by the Daley machine?). If you thought you saw Swift Boating with Kerry, get in the barcalounger and pop a brewski: it's going to be a long and ugly '08.

1/04/2008 10:26:00 AM  
Blogger George said...

Any race with the Republicans is bound to be nasty.

Obama is about inspiration and hope after a long drought of vampire republican politics.

Look at the numbers, Obama has nearly half the voters under 44... feels like the sizties again.

The democratic turnout was almost 2X the highest ever recorded in the past.

It all started with Borat

1/04/2008 10:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait a minute, something else happened last night? I thought the news only had room for one thing when Brittney gets sent by ambulance to Cedar's Sinai.

Congrats Edwards and Obama on their strong finishes.

1/04/2008 10:44:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

Ondine, you've implied on several occassions that if I dig deeper I'll find dirt on Obama. Maybe I've been digging in the wrong places, but nothing I've found stacks up to anything other than guilt by association, which I tend to think isn't fair. What have you got?

1/04/2008 10:47:00 AM  
Anonymous ondine said...

"It all started with Borat."

Now that made the coffee fly out of my nose! Someone should bring up Borat the next time George Will spews that drivel about no racism in America!

iirc, 4 years ago Dean was polling some impressive 'youth' statistics too.

1/04/2008 10:48:00 AM  
Anonymous ondine said...

Edward, the term Swift Boating doesn't allude to truth, just a set of facts that can be played 2 ways. Obama's land deals, the cocaine, the Muslim schools are the things we already know about. There's more there, always is with very ambitious men and women, no matter what their color.

As for being vetted properly, i'd love to see the teams just assigned by the right wing think tanks for that very purpose this morning.

1/04/2008 10:54:00 AM  
Anonymous ondine said...

PS. Saw the Chuck Close documentary at Film Forum yesterday. It's very well done.

1/04/2008 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

yeah...can't wait to see it.

About Obama, though, don't the other candidates stand just as big a risk of being swiftboated? Surely if truth doesn't matter, then Hillary and Edwards are just as vulnerable to some spin or set of lies, no?

1/04/2008 11:14:00 AM  
Blogger George said...

Borat: A couple of years ago prior to the midterm elections, Borat was big. I made a comment here that I felt Borat symbolized our ability to laugh and joke again, something which had been suppressed up to then in the post-911 mourning. Contrary to the prevailing opinion, I suggested that the Democrats were going to win in the congressional elections, they did.

I have no doubt that the Republican vampires are scared shitless right about now, Obama is the most electrifying candidate since JFK. He’s a better politician than Bill Clinton and that is saying a lot.

I also have no doubt that the republican political assassins will go after Obama, it won’t matter. The republicans have NO candidate, Huckleberry Archangel from the Christian right? The guy with two first names that make it sound like he’s running for Pope? Maybe it will be Bloomberg? Whatever it won’t matter

Prediction: It’s all over, Obama will be the next president.

The real question is who gets to be vice-president?

1/04/2008 11:18:00 AM  
Anonymous ondine said...

Edward: I'll disagree. Hillary (or Hillpac as I call her) doesn't even need to be swiftboated, her war record and her past will do most of the work for them. Edwards has passed this test already. They tried everything they had in '04 when he was Kerry's VP and they got nowhere. If Obama becomes problematic (and he will) we will have blown the one candidate at the top end who will go the distance against them.

George: I think you way overestimate Obama. He's ok with his stump speech but fairly weak extemporaneously (unlike Bill C. who was great at both). He could fizzle like Dean under the hottest lights and then we'll be at the mercy of some really awful R candidates, who have a better chance than you think. A recent poll in CA said 41% of Californians will vote R no matter who the candidate is. That certainly shocked me into reality.

It's too important not to blow this one, especially when Edwards has the best healthcare plan of all 3 and is by far the most adamant about getting us out of Iraq ASAP, something neither Obama or Hillary have said they will do, in fact they said they would not garauntee we would be out at the end of their first term in 2013-- that simply should not be acceptable to the American public and it certainly isn't already to the world at large.

1/04/2008 11:49:00 AM  
Blogger George said...

The Swift boat has sunk.

"It's about the economy stupid"

Yep, check out todays jobs numbers, notsohot.

There is NO way the republicans can turn this economy around by November. No incumbant party ever wins, people do vote with their pocketbook.

Of course the republicans could try to rig the election, nah, they wouldn't try that...

1/04/2008 11:52:00 AM  
Anonymous ondine said...

Good point George, they're quite good at rigging (and so have the Dems in the past).

My worry is that the media is owned in (very) large part by the multi-nationals and we need someone to free it up which is what the public demands by 99% when they show up at FCC meetings. Obama and Hillary and very cozy with lobbyists and multi-nationals. Edwards wants to take them on.

By the way I'm also critical of Edwards in some areas, he doesn't speak that well off the stump either (his wife is better at that) and he didn't do as well in '04 opposite Cheney as he should have. I'm a hard task-master, i just think the world's problems demand it.

1/04/2008 12:08:00 PM  
Blogger George said...

Ed, my prediction that Obama will be the next president is based upon a gut feeling, I’ll stand by it.

My non-scientific views.

At first I thought Obama wasn’t experienced enough, this was a plus for Hilary. After thinking about it, I decided it doesn’t matter, Obama is experienced enough to get this far, and he’s obviously smart.

What this country needs now, more than anything, is leadership out of the morass created by the republican vampires.

Obama is inspiring, that’s a plus here at home, but more importantly, I think Obama has the ability to resurrect world opinion towards the US. This could lead to international political solutions which are negotiated rather than surged.

The economy, the war in Iraq, and healthcare, in that order, all three Democrat candidates have acceptable positions on these, so it doesn’t really matter. Ultimately, whoever is the next president will have to lead the country and congress through the resolution of these issues. Promises made beforehand will succumb to compromise.

What I’m hoping is that the Democrats put together a solid ticket, unify the party and then campaign like they want to win.

The hardcore republicans will vote republican, the rest of them vote with their pocketbook.

It’s going to be a Democrat sweep.

1/04/2008 12:13:00 PM  
Blogger the reader said...

For someone who hasn't seen a lot of Obama and who is watching this from outside the US there were a few things that I thought were really powerful about this speech. One was the connections that Obama made between hope and history. By offering a sense of how a vision for the future connects with some of the great social and political changes of the past Obama was able to both articulate something of an intellectual vision while also engaging you on a powerful emotional level. The connection with history is crucial here and speaking more generally (i.e. outside of the US) such an powerful connection is something that i think has been missing in other election campaigns in which the left has tried to counter the negative fear-based campaigns of the right.

The other thing that caught my attention was Obama's use of this powerful retorical device whereby he projects victory into the future and speaks of the present as the past, along the lines of "when we win and make changes you will see that this was the moment that it all began."

for me it was refreshing to see a somewhat different approach from the side of politics that is a little closer to my world view.

1/04/2008 06:16:00 PM  
Blogger Joanne Mattera said...

Don't count Hillary out. She will get my vote in the primary, and I'm not the only who will be voting for her. But whether she or Obama gets the nomination--and wins the presidency, with the very real possibility of a Chicano as VP--it's thrilling. Leaving aside for a moment the enormous work they will have to just to undo the damage W has caused, I'm really high on the barriers that have been pushed aside just for them to have gotten this far.

I realize this may be my inner Flower Child speaking through my more cynical adult persona, but I am digging the very real possibilities here.

Huckabee Schmuckabee. None of the repubs has a chance this time around. Now if they would leave immigration alone. Last time I looked, 95% of us came from somewhere else--recently or farther back down the road, willingly or not. And, look, it's come to this.

1/04/2008 07:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hope and change and contract with america and no child left behind blah blah buzzword blah. i don't have a clue about where obama stands on much of anything, except for the fact that he was against the war five years ago.

hillary first choice, edwards second.

if it ends up obama vs huckabee, bloomberg will definitely enter.

1/04/2008 09:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When Thurgood Marshall retired from the supreme court, and Bush senior appointed Clarence Thomas, all Thurgood Marshall said when asked to comment on Thomas' appointment was "A black snake will bite you just as quick as a white one."

but, I direct this at you Hillary fans and add "A female snake will bite you just as quick as a male"
I would say the good sense of the people of Iowa has figured this out.

picking a president based on the shape of their genitalia, is.. well not an enlightened decision.

1/05/2008 04:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i am anonymous 9:05pm.

what makes you think that my support of hillary has anything at all to do with her sex? it doesn't.

i'm not anti-obama either, but really know zilch about any of his postitions and am not swept up in the charisma and "freshness".

so edward is for obama now?

1/05/2008 11:09:00 AM  
Anonymous db said...

We can't get it done by holding hands and singing Kumbaya. I'll take the trial lawyer. The R's and Inc.'s have been scared shitless of that guy from the beginning of his political career.

1/05/2008 11:38:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

so edward is for obama now?

He's still not my first choice. Edwards is...something about his name that just makes me trust him. ;-)

I'm such a cynic that I'm still waiting to see whether the sentiments in Obama's victory speech (which were truly impressive) last through a bitter, tougher campaign. I don't expect the GOP to fight any nicer this time around than they have traditionally, and I while I hear that Obama can handle it, I've yet to see anything seriously confrontation be thrown at him.

Long story short, should he get the nomination, I'll very happily help make him our next president. We have three very good choices this time...how rare and wonderful.

1/05/2008 11:48:00 AM  
Blogger Joanne Mattera said...

Anonynmous 9:05 has a good response to Anonymous 4:31. It's not about the sex. For me it's the experience.

And why, 4:31, should we assume Hillary is a snake?

However, I do think that with a female candidate and and a black candidate we have the opportunity to push back the barriers, so if I lean more toward them rather than yet another white man--no offense to all you nice white guys out there--that's why. But any of those three would be a good president.

(None, alas, has gone on record as being unequivocally supportive of gay marriage--and for me that's simply a yardstick of how willing they are to stand up for full and equal rights for all).

1/05/2008 02:45:00 PM  
Blogger patrick said...

I have to totally disagree! This wasn't impressive, it's downright outrageous. This speech sounded sad and naive to me. While in a perfect world, it would be nice to have this kind of idealism, it's just not reality...and this speech really shows his inexperience.

I really wish people would and could develop their own opinions instead of ingesting whatever the media says they should think.

1/05/2008 03:38:00 PM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

I'm not sure I understand why it's outrageous Patrick.

I agree that it's a bit naive, but sad? I like to think optimism can't be sad.

What am I missing?

1/05/2008 05:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joanne, What experience do you think Hillary has, The same win at all costs attitude that Bill Clinton had, then compromised away the democrats values to work with the republicans, "Dance with the devil, the devil don't change, the devil changes you." The experience of sticking with a lying cheating husband in denial, because in the end it will further her own political ambitions(while setting the feminist movement back 100 years), carpet bagging an election in a state, then proceed to treat the attempts by the press of that state to find out her positions with contempt.
Is it the constant flip flop on the war that makes her qualified to be the commander in chief, was it how well she worked with congress and established a universal health care plan(didn't happen), is it the way she refused to take contributions from the health care industry(no that wasn't her, she's the number one recipient of health care contributions among both parties, Obama is second.)an as I recall after 911 it was Schummer who went the extra mile for NY, she made some appearances, and lame speeches.

So if you want to justify support of Hillary based on experience, isn't her kind of experience exactly what we are all tired of?

And why, 4:31, should we assume Hillary is a snake?

We are past assumption, her experience has proved it.

one more history lesson, in 1980 the republican party was a shoe in after what happened to the country under Carter, The republicans crowned George Herbert Walker Bush their man in the early running,( which in those days started in Sept. of 1979) Bush even won the Iowa Caucus, then Reagan won in New Hampshire.

in 92 Harkin (an Iowan Senator) won the Iowa democratic caucus Tsongas was second Clinton only recieved %3
then in New Hampshire Tsongas won.

So before we start to pick out our inauguration dashiki's, let's see what happens in New Hampshire.

1/05/2008 05:27:00 PM  
Anonymous db said...

Identity is a sucker punch for PC fundamentalists just as jeebus is for the evangelicals.

Obama's support among the younger demographic mirrors his idealism and niavete. The older demo isn't falling for it. At age 23 I was a precinct captain for McGovern and he was eaten alive by the R's.

1/05/2008 06:09:00 PM  
Blogger patrick said...

What makes me angry about Obama and all this attention on his speech is that it's just processed politics and he's trying to make like he isn't a part of that and this speech just proves he is. He even backtracked himself tonight, just 24 hours later in the debate on ABC.

No one is more optimistic about the future of this country than me, however, I just get really upset when the conservative media spins thought and people eat it like it's a pack of nutter butters.

1/06/2008 12:06:00 AM  
Blogger Joanne Mattera said...

A little pedantic are we, with the politics lesson, Anonymous 5:27? I'm happy to hear opinions but I don't wish to learn "lessons" from anonymous preachers.I think the issue is clear here: you should not vote for Hillary.

1/06/2008 11:38:00 AM  
Blogger patrick said...

No Joanne, I think the issue here is that you SHOULD VOTE FOR HILLARY!

1/07/2008 05:56:00 PM  
Blogger patrick said...

Isn't it funny how this Barack speech sounded so similar to the speech he gave tonight in New Hampshire? I'm so happy that my message has been right all along. People do not want to ingest media garbage. Let's talk about the truth.

1/09/2008 12:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More proof Camille Paglia is brilliant

1/12/2008 04:26:00 AM  

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