Wednesday, February 15, 2006

Two Notes: One Sort of Early, One Rather Late

Note ONE: Getting around the Gallery Ghetto

Through the wonders of hit counters, a while ago I discovered a new online guide through the maze of galleries in that jungle called Chelsea. Upon discovering chelseaartgalleries.com I was pretty amazed at the sheer quantity of data this site was accumulating and organizing in very helpful ways. Not only were they organizing the galleries by street (which mirrors the way I gallery hop), but they listed all the galleries' artists, their staff, next-door neighbors, recent and upcoming exhibitions, reviews, and even which art fairs they have been or will be in. Morever, they have this amazing "Gallery Tour" tool that you can use to chart your course for any given trip to the hood (no more illegible notes on napkins, wahoo!!). And they've done it in an extraordinarily easy-to-navigate way. I've worked on developing the information architecture for large portal-esque sites, and I can tell theirs must be very well thought out.

OK, so I've indicated before I've worked on websites with focus groups and such, and the publisher of this new site had read that on my blog and emailed me with some flattering words about the blog and an invitation to offer feedback on his site. I am truly impressed by the effort so I wrote back with some comments and suggestions, a few of which they've implemented. Long story short: if you're new to gallery hopping, this is an amazing resource. It could use more (any) images of actual art and I think their recommendations for reading and featured artists need a clear POV (i.e., who's making these choices...what are their credentials?), but they've indicated they are interested in possibly offering feeds from blogs in addition to news, which could make it a good central location to get your up-to-the-minute news and gossip, as well as gallery info. There is the potential for it to try to be too many things for too many people, but as it stands now, the site is a welcome addition to the online resources designed to help you get around the gallery ghetto.

Note TWO: Don't Read Him

Although I've made some comments on Edna's site and had a few email chats with various folks engaged in the Charlie Finch debate that's raging across the art blogosphere, I've been quiet here. I've felt my blood boil from time to time while reading Charlie's columns on artnet. He's a rather rude pundit, to put it bluntly. On a few occassions, when he peppered his prose with rather nasty anti-gay statements, I considered taking him to task, but then cooled down a bit and went back and re-read what he was writing with a more open mind. OK, so it was generally still offensive, but the exercise didn't kill me.

Now I'm sure I'm going to get myself in trouble here, because I seem to be in the minority of art bloggers in thinking it's terribly wrong to call for artnet.com to fire Charlie (I consider libel, blatant falsehoods, and open calls for violence sackable offenses, but short of those, I support freedom of expression...even for bigots and blowhards...and more than just freedom of expression, I very, very strongly believe in a dialog...an exchange of ideas, even highly emotional and politically incorrect ones...such exchanges are vital to progress IMO). I will admit that having culled through Charlie's old columns last night I can attest that it's an appalling collection of horrendously sexist text, and so I'm happy to see his public is finally beating him up over it, but there's a very simple way to avoid being offended by him...don't be his public...don't read him.

I know that sounds rather simple of me, but I mean it sincerely. Before starting this blog, I spent a great deal of my time writing for the wonderful pan-partisan political blog Obsidian Wings. With a commitement to offering a true spectrum of political thought, the site has writers on the far left, central left, middle, central right and far right. As time went on, the majority of the readership tended to be central or far left, so to balance it out we invited a controversial, stauchly right writer to join the group. In the beginning, each thread to his posts was a firestorm, and the readership consumed untold megabytes insisting that we, the moderators, kick him out. They told us they didn't appreciate coming to site (which had authors' names at the end of each post) and being surprised that any given text they were reading might be offensive to them. Eventually the moderators came to a compromise and agreed to make each author put a byline at the top of their entries so that readers could see who a post was by and just skip the ones by those writers they knew would upset them. It worked. That rightwing writer still gets plenty of angry comments, but at least the readers have only themselves to blame if they're upset. More importantly, many of his most vocal opponents have grudingly admitted over time that they have learned from him.

Now it's totally possible that there's nothing Charlie Finch can teach that's worth learning. I'm not suggesting anyone should subject themselves to his repugnant laspes in taste or manners just to glean some nugget of insight. Quite the contrary...Don't like Charlie Finch? Don't read him. But I do feel strongly that a spectrum of opinion is important in all fields. More than that, I feel very strongly that even the offensive have a right to their voice. Suggesting that artnet.com shouldn't have such a voice, ever, is backdoor censorship to me. Write blistering critiques of his abusive prose...email and complain to the editor...email and complain to the advertisers on the site, but stop short of insisting he be fired...that's a very serious slippery slope. Especially when it's so easy to just not read him.

UPDATE: A fellow blogger has emailed a group of art bloggers to point out that in addition to how objectionable Charlie's article on Natalie Frank is, another issue he deserves to be taken to task over (and artnet.com as well) is that Charlie owns Natalie's work. This blogger suggests that praising her work in such a context (without disclosing his ownership) is a conflict of interest. I hesitate to weigh in definitively on that (I own pieces by several of the "Artist of the Week" artists I've highlighted and haven't disclosed that each time), but I do think given the readership of artnet.com, Charlie should have noted this detail.

71 Comments:

Anonymous pc said...

I agree, Edward, in principle. But since he's such an entertaining, stylish writer, I'd like to suggest a modification to your suggestion to not read him: read him and then ingnore him. His ideas can't hurt you, can they? I'm thrilled to hear you take him to task, and for me, that's what defuses his bile, especially since I haven't read anything criticising him elswhere (oh, sheltered me).

By the way, I was appalled at Finch's last column, in which he admitted to pushing Natalie Frank's work and said, "At our direction, she would wipe away days of work in a flash to add a cascade of decaying flowers or some phallic armature." (!!!) But I admire him, after a fashion, because I"ve never read anyone so frank (I assume this stuff happens all the time), even though he's clearly a jerk, a braggart, and a blowhard.

2/15/2006 10:04:00 AM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

in the minority of art bloggers in thinking it's terribly wrong to call for artnet.com to fire Charlie

As far as I know, no one has called for Finch to be fired (I certainly haven't). Most who have expressed outrage just want Walter Robinson to show a little editorial restraint when it comes to printing blatant sexism (among other things).

2/15/2006 10:12:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

PC,

The article you mention has been blasted on many art blogs, and the editor of artnet.com (Walter Robinson) has responed to a few emails about it from various bloggers with rather odd dismissals.

I would agree that Finch is very frank. I've noted before he was also incredibly generous to me when I organized my first exhibition in New York, so I try to be loyal...but he's making that so incredibly difficult.

It may be because I think he's being over-the-top on purpose that I give him more rope than others do...but I'd rather he hang himself, so to speak, than he be strung up by an angry mob. I don't like the ramifications of that for the art press in general at all.

In other words, let his editor decide to let him go because he's hurting sales....

Art Soldier,

Some sites that I hold in very high esteem have asked that artnet let him go. I respectfully disagree with them on that.

2/15/2006 10:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

are comments working? it says there are 3 comments,but when i click on it, there are only 2. this is too important a subject to miss anything.

2/15/2006 10:25:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

I see four comments, anonymous...one from PC, one from art soldier, one from me and one from you...which don't you see?

2/15/2006 10:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wasn't there before, but it's all there now, thanks.

2/15/2006 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

E_: Some sites that I hold in very high esteem have asked that artnet let him go

Maybe so (which ones BTW?), but I don't think it's fair to the rest of us to say that you're in the minority of those who have not asked for his dismissal. It makes it sound like the majority of the blogosphere is calling for him to be fired, which I believe is untrue (correct me if I'm wrong).

Most of the blogs that I read have done exactly as you have suggested when you wrote:

Write blistering critiques of his abusive prose...email and complain to the editor...email and complain to the advertisers on the site,

I also have to take issue with the example of the right-wing blogger as a comparison to Finch. Expressing a far-right political opinion does not necessarily include offensive discrimination. Contrary political opinions should always be acceptable and welcomed, but sexual predation is shameful, unethical and doesn't add anything to "discussion."

The danger of Finch's prurient prose is that even if all of us here stop reading him, many others will continue to do so. His writing will continue to serve as a model for sexism (endorsed by Artnet) that can be very influential on those looking to the art world's media institutions for direction.

2/15/2006 10:32:00 AM  
Anonymous bambino said...

I support you darlinkk :) whatever you say....

2/15/2006 10:38:00 AM  
Blogger James W. Bailey said...

Dear Edward,

I've communicated with Mr. Robinson and Mr. Finch. Mr.Robinson is not going to fire Mr. Finch, censor Mr. Finch or edit Mr. Finch to please Artnet.com's blogger critics, nor should he. I think if you read between the lines of Mr. Robinson's terse responses, you'll quickly realize what he really thinks about bloggers, especially anonymous bloggers.

James

2/15/2006 10:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what were robinson's terse responses besides the ones to greg & edna? what did he say to james bailey?

2/15/2006 10:48:00 AM  
Blogger James W. Bailey said...

Dear Edward,

Please forgive this post - as a photographer, I just had a heart attack and all my concerns about the 1st Amendment and Freedom of Artistic Expression have temporarily shut down!

Lenny has posted the following:http://dcartnews.blogspot.com/archives/2006_02_01_dcartnews_archive.html#114001799862349755

The photograph (titled Pond-Moonlight ) was taken in New York in 1904 and was auctioned by Sotheby's for $2.9m, more than doubling the previous record.

---

Jesus Christ! What was I saying the other day? $2.9 million. It's looking like it's going to be another great year for photographers!

James

2/15/2006 10:49:00 AM  
Anonymous pc said...

Edward,

I poked around, reading some opions on Finch. I also reread the Frank article. I'm a little puzzled at the charge of sexism. There's nothing overt, except for his general condescension toward NF and the possibly incidental fact that she's female. Does everyone in blogopolis know something about him, ad hominem-wise, that I don't know? What shocked me was Finch bragging about his influence and his describing baldly how he uses it. Doesn't he also mention Yale a lot?

pc

2/15/2006 10:50:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

thanks bambino, but you're not getting another Valentine's Day present, so ... ;-p

Art Soldier,

I think you're splitting hairs here on the first point, and I'm not sure what good will come of dragging that out, but I'll try one time. I wrote:

Now I'm sure I'm going to get myself in trouble here, because I seem to be in the minority of art bloggers in thinking it's terribly wrong to call for artnet.com to fire Charlie

That doesn't say a majority of bloggers have called for him to be fired, just that a majority haven't defended his right to voice his opinion in the face of calls to fire him. Tyler is one who has, btw. Greg Allen another.

Expressing a far-right political opinion does not necessarily include offensive discrimination.

You're right. Not necessarily. But are we saying that sexual discriminatory remarks are different from other offensive language? Not sure that makes sense to me.

The danger of Finch's prurient prose is that even if all of us here stop reading him, many others will continue to do so.

This I wholly reject. There are NO dangerous ideas or opinions. Only dangerous actions. (Openly calling for violence is an action, IMO, for the record.) I understand that Finch is perpetuating an attitude that is oppressive, but it's just his opinion. I can loathe it, but I don't feel it's right to muzzle him over it. He won't change his opinions unless he's challenged to, IMO...an open debate is the ticket, not censorship. I think Edna's on the right track with her request to Walter that she be allowed to go head to head with Finch.

2/15/2006 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But robinson WAS going to let edna go "head to head" with Finch, wasn't he? then she freaked out and wrote him a hysterical email demanding that he do things her way rather than just publish her piece. somehow this has gotten all mixed up with whether finch should be fired.

2/15/2006 11:05:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

Actually, Edna wrote Walter on the heels of Charlie's post and asked "If you'll let me go head-to-head with Finch - by running my article now,with a new introduction, I'll do it."

I wouldn't describe her email as "hysterical" either. It was passionate, but not out of control. The ultimatum was perhaps a bit rash, given her position within the organization compared with Finch's and Walter's, but other than that her email was rational.

2/15/2006 11:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh, i stand corrected. but what was the new introduction supposed to say? something like, "this here is to counter finch's column"? wouldn't the fact of edna's column itself, just by being there, have countered his?

2/15/2006 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

E_: But are we saying that sexual discriminatory remarks are different from other offensive language?

No, I was saying that it's different than expressing a different political view. Sexism occurs in all political parties, not just one. Simply declaring oneself right-wing should not, in itself, be an unethical assertion. But discrimination is.

just that a majority haven't defended his right to voice his opinion in the face of calls to fire him

Oh, how we could drag this out ;[ But I won't, because I've covered it ad nauseam elsewhere. I simply wanted to point out that most of us are not trying to get him fired (BTW, Greg and Tyler were some of the last ones to chime in on the discussion -- those who started the so-called "lynch mob" never suggested firing him). But the reason I'm not calling for him to be fired is that it weakens the tactic when it needs to be used in protest for something more abusive (like some of the things you suggested in your post). Everyone's calling for someone to be fired these days, and it doesn't mean anything anymore.

This I wholly reject. There are NO dangerous ideas or opinions.

This is our essential disagreement and is at the heart of most arguments concerning "Free Speech" (and those damned cartoons). As I discussed in my post, it represents a popular Libertarian viewpoint and is one I reject. Not sure we can really debate about it meaningfully here, only that I would offer these as an very extreme example of what I consider to be dangerous ideas -- and these are not to be confused with open calls for violence.

2/15/2006 11:28:00 AM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

No, I was saying that it's different than expressing a different political view.

Not always. Some folks see a different political view (like, say, on gay marriage) to be offensive, for example.

And, yes, we disagree... those are vile ideas in those cartoons, but not in and of themselves dangerous. When freedoms are secure, good people will reject those ideas and the author of them pay the societal price for offering them. It's only when you put measures in place that muzzle expression that such ideas can be perpetuated and spread. The irony is that by muzzling the authors of those ideas, you're contributing to that exact situation.

2/15/2006 11:43:00 AM  
Anonymous George said...

Ed, regarding "dangerous actions"
FTR: I didn't actually expect anyone to actually punch him out,
I was just expressing my extreme anger, being a bad boy.

2/15/2006 11:58:00 AM  
Anonymous pc said...

For the record, I'm not against offensive speech. Finch clearly offends many, but there's nothing wrong with that at all. IMO, there should be no "controversy" about this, just disagreements and letters to the editor when people are inclined.

2/15/2006 12:04:00 PM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

I agree that letters to the editor and such are the best way to deal with this. I don't mind folks ranting about it on their blogs and such...Lord knows, I'd have to delete half my posts if that was off limits...and I don't mind boycotts or calls to advertisers. I'd just stop short of demanding someone be sacked for what's clearly an opinion piece (I mean it's not like it's offered up as "news" or a "review"...Finch is a pundit).

2/15/2006 12:06:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

E_:Not always. Some folks see a different political view (like, say, on gay marriage) to be offensive, for example.

Not sure what your point is here. I simply stated that being right-wing is not necessarily the moral equivalent of a sexist discriminator (although I'd probably be sympathetic to the argument if you wanted to make it ;]), not that policial speech can't be offensive. But if you don't think that blatantly sexist speech is dangerous then it doesn't matter anyway.

Debating whether racist propaganda is dangerous to society is not something I wish to address here. If you don't see the dangers of Nazi propaganda, and how it was masterfully wielded to unite the prejudice of an entire nation against Judaism, then I probably can't convince you.

Sad to say it, but the history of human civilization is full of Good people unable to reject vile ideas. If they were able to do so, we'd probably have a different President in office right now.

2/15/2006 12:07:00 PM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

Art Soldier, that's probably more than we can resolve in this thread. We generally agree on what's offensive, just not on how to deal with it.

But if you don't think that blatantly sexist speech is dangerous then it doesn't matter anyway.

I think it's repugnant, but I don't think it's dangerous, no. What's dangerous is building systems whereby people can't express their opinions.

2/15/2006 12:08:00 PM  
Blogger JD said...

Damn, I'm late to this great discussion! I think there are two separate issues with Finch. One is his creepy mysogyny. The other is the fact that the man can't string a sentence together, and is a terrible art critic: his ideas are simply nonexistant. He's a gossip columnist, that's all. I think he could be fired for sheer irrelevance and incompetance, let alone for sexism, but the backlash it would provoke against so-called "feminazis" would not be worth it. I think Artnet should be pressured to hire a good female art critic, and also to have a cyberspace Letters to the Editor section. Robinson is clearly banking on Finch being a "controversial" figure, so he should allow a dialogue to ensue.

I am against censorship. I do think, though, that Finch's opinions, such as they are, come with the tacit support of the institution of Artnet, and therefore carry undue authority. This is the story of all NON-INSTITUTIONALIZED discrimination, and must be met not with censorship, but with a firestorm of dissent.

2/15/2006 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

that's probably more than we can resolve in this thread. We generally agree on what's offensive, just not on how to deal with it.

You're right, but:

Power is the ability to affect change.

Change can be either desirable or undesirable.

Power that affects undesirable change is dangerous.

If Speech has power,

then, Speech has the ability to affect change,

then, Speech has the ability to affect undesirable change,

thus, Speech has the ability to be dangerous.

If Speech is not dangerous then it has not the power to affect change. It is powerless.

If Speech is powerless then why do we spend so much time talking?

The Libertarian ideology asserts that speech is powerless and that receivers of speech are to blame for their reactions, not the speaker. If this assertion is true, then the Presidential speech writer is waaay overpaid ;]

2/15/2006 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger Edna said...

I realize this thread has gone way beyond this, but...

just to clarify, I certainly never called for Finch to be fired. I was pissed that his column ran at exactly the moment they planned to introduce mine. Of course I knew full well that Finch was a regular contributor (and blatantly sexist) when I asked to work with Artnet in the first place.

I asked them to run my column with a new introduction that was more "of the moment," i.e. more explicit - with mention of the issues ART ARTNET and elsewhere. I have since learned that they have a policy not to let their writers go head to head. I did not know this at the time. It should be an important factor in this discussion.

My email wasn't hysterical, but it was too blunt considering my short relationship with Walter. To me, the email was both a protest letter to the Editor, and a request to redefine my introduction as a contributor to the magazine. I felt like I wanted to immediately take Finch to task - I didn't want to fuck around with, "Here are some art shows by women, blah blah, golly gee I hope things change around here..."

I never spoke out against free speech. My subsequent statement that I wanted to muffle Finch wasn't a plan to shut him down, just to speak louder than him.

2/15/2006 01:28:00 PM  
Anonymous pc said...

Art Soldier's trying to lump offensive or even ideologically hateful speech with "racist propaganda" is a huge mistake in categories. The most extreme proponent of free speech would never defend a powerful state's use of propaganda to incite violence and genocide. However, almost all free speechers would defend an indivdual's right to espouse racist and even genocidal ideology.

JD said that Finch, "can't string a sentence together." I disagree. He's an excellent writer. He's a crappy critic, I'd have to agree though--but he doesn't even try. He is a gossip columnist. That's why I like his writing. Who else is saying exactly how the art world works in all its occassional sordidness? What's special about him is that he implicates (he's practically confessing) himself. Again, his offensiveness doesn't bother me one bit, but his writing is disturbing because it seems to show how one creepy aspect of the art biz in NY works.

2/15/2006 01:29:00 PM  
Blogger Edna said...

oops i mean AT ARTNET, not ART ARTNET.

2/15/2006 01:29:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

PC: "The most extreme proponent of free speech would never defend a powerful state's use of propaganda to incite violence and genocide."

Thanks for making my point PC. But Edward_ would defend their right to do so, while denouncing the results.

He's asserting that while violence and genocide are disgusting, and that powerful states that incite violence and genocide are disgusting, the propaganda used by the "powerful state" is not to blame because speech has not the capacity to incite violence and genocide.

2/15/2006 01:53:00 PM  
Blogger JD said...

By the way, in response to Edna's letter being called HYSTERICAL: We've got a long way to go, babies.

2/15/2006 01:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Art Soldier.

Edward is defending the indivual's right, and I think he's correct. I doubt he'd defend the state's right to propaganda. Everyone knows some speech can incite violence, and the recognition that you should not shout "fire" in a crowded theater is implicit in any discussion of free speech.

The culture wars were in part about right wingers claiming that Godless cosmopolitan libertine amoral artists would infect our children and destroy our way of life. Absurd hyperbole, perhaps, but they make the same argument that you make: people should not be allowed to say dangerous stuff. Do you agree with them? Say you agreed that Mapplethorpe was dangerous. Would you fight to have his work suppressed?

2/15/2006 02:04:00 PM  
Anonymous pc said...

The post from Anonymous to Art Soldier above is from me, PC (my initials, not my political philosophy, by the way).

2/15/2006 02:06:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

anon pc: the recognition that you should not shout "fire" in a crowded theater is implicit in any discussion of free speech.

Great example! It is implicit because it is a form of speech that is OBVIOUSLY DANGEROUS. WORDS HAVE POWER. The only difference between this example and sexist speech is that you do not recognize its danger as obvious. Therefore, since you agree that speech has the capacity to be dangerous, the next question is, how do we decide which speech is dangerous? Why is sexist speech not dangerous?

2/15/2006 02:11:00 PM  
Anonymous pc said...

"How do we decide which speech is dangerous?"

That's the big problem and what the illustration of Mapplethorpe was meant to show. Those of us who believe in free speech believe in it precisely because we think no one, least of all you or the federal government, should be able to decide what is dangerous.

2/15/2006 02:26:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

PC: Then who decides?

2/15/2006 02:34:00 PM  
Anonymous pc said...

I'm not a lawyer, but I think it probably has to meet the test of "fire" and be decided in court. In other words, the danger has to be crystal clear and immediate, otherwise you run into every possible kind of supression of free speech.

2/15/2006 02:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

edna -

what were people saying about wr's "character" in your emails?

2/15/2006 02:40:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

PC: be decided in court

The courts are government institutions. You've completely contradicted yourself by stating that government should decide which speech is dangerous.

You've revealed that you're more opposed to free speech than I am. I feel that government should not decide which speech is dangerous.

2/15/2006 02:43:00 PM  
Blogger Edna said...

'the danger has to be crystal clear and immediate, otherwise you run into every possible kind of supression of free speech.'

This is the exact problem! You can't take the fucking nuance out of everything.

anon - I was told in confidence (at least by some), so I hesitate to share details. Let's suffice it to say he has a lot of enemies.

2/15/2006 02:45:00 PM  
Anonymous pc said...

Art Soldier,

Yikes. You think you should be able to shout "fire?" I'm no libertarian. Yes, I think government is absolutely in the business of protecting the public. Beg your pardon, but just because I think government has a role and that there are limitations on free speech, doesn't mean I am against free speech.

I guess I'm unclear on your position. I think mine is nothing special, a conventional liberal free speech fundamentalist, a card-carying ACLU type. But I can see that I'm not persuading you.

pc

2/15/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

edna -

i wonder how many of those are sour grapes because he didn't do some favor for them or accept their writing for artnet, or post reviews of their work.

2/15/2006 02:50:00 PM  
Blogger AFC said...

Just a note on Edwards update: While it is smart for Edward not to weigh in heavily on the conflict of interest, since Edward is in the business of dealing art, we all expect him to own at least a few of the works in the Artist of the Week segment. It's what he does. He's not claiming otherwise. Artnet is a news source and is supposed to be objective. If this happened to a reporter in any other field, there would be hell to pay.

2/15/2006 02:51:00 PM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

Art Soldier,

That's an incredible leap from my defense of an individual's right to express their opinion to my supposed support of propaganda that incites violence. I see how you got there, but you're projecting far too much to do so.

I assumed we were discussing the Nazi cartoons as examples of ideas, not state-sponsored propaganda purposely employed to incite hatred...if the whole ideology and policies and practices of the Nazi regime were supposed to come along for consideration, you should have clarified that.

Let me be really clear here. My position is that an idea on its own from an individual is not dangerous. Once a group or state moves from agreeing to an idea to then SPREADING that idea, it has become an ACTION...it's no longer just an idea...I've conceded there are dangerous actions. Just because you can point to examples where this or that group seized upon an idea and then took action to implement some evil aspect of it doesn't mean that original idea was in and of itself dangerous.

But let me try this from another angle to see if you can understand my POV. If we accept your position that ideas in and of themselves are dangerous, wouldn't we be morally obligated to police those ideas, even back to their orignal individual source?

2/15/2006 03:05:00 PM  
Anonymous ML said...

I wouldn't object to Finch so much if Greater New York had included more women in the show. What was it - 18%? One bitchy voice is dismissable. Finch, though, is just parroting the increasing conservatism of our society.

2/15/2006 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger James W. Bailey said...

Dear Edward,

I think the solution to bad thoughts is called the Dream Police. :)

---
Cheap Trick

The dream police, they live inside of my head.
The dream police, they come to me in my bed.
The dream police, they’re coming to arrest me, oh no.

You know that talk is cheap, and those rumors ain’t nice.
And when I fall asleep I don’t think I’ll survive the night, the night.

’cause they’re waiting for me.
They’re looking for me.
Ev’ry single night they’re driving me insane.
Those men inside my brain.

The dream police, they live inside of my head.
(live inside of my head.)
The dream police, they come to me in my bed.
(come to me in my bed.)
The dream police, they’re coming to arrest me, oh no.

Well, I can’t tell lies, ’cause they’re listening to me.
And when I fall asleep, bet they’re spying on me tonight, tonight.

’cause they’re waiting for me.
They’re looking for me.
Ev’ry single night they’re driving me insane.
Those men inside my brain.

I try to sleep, they’re wide awake, they won’t leave me alone.
They don’t get paid to take vacations, or let me alone.
They spy on me, I try to hide, they won’t let me alone.
They persecute me, they’re the judge and jury all in one.

’cause they’re waiting for me.
They’re looking for me.
Ev’ry single night they’re driving me insane.
Those men inside my brain.

The dream police, they live inside of my head.
The dream police, they come to me in my bed.
The dream police, they’re coming to arrest me.

James

P.S. "I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts"

2/15/2006 03:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This james bailey character is a nutcase. what was all that weird ranting on his site about tyler green, the klan, etc.??

2/15/2006 03:25:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

Perhaps we should now start a discussion about how the concept of "Freedom" is used by those in power to keep their citizens unknowingly oppressed. Not really, but do think about it.

E_:individual's right to express their opinion ... examples of ideas...

I thought we were talking about "speech", not specific examples or uses of speech. Are you asserting that propaganda is not speech? It sounds like you're trying to redefine the word "speech" to fit your description of "not capable of being dangerous." Alas, are we again at a semantic crossroads? Ugh. When Libertarians speak of 'speech' they mean absolutely everything than can be conveyed, no matter how it is "used".

PC: Of course I don't think people should be able to yell, "fire." My point is simply that the government already restricts certain parts of speech that we all agree to be dangerous (speech inciting violence is a good example). We don't want them to restrict it any more than they already have. But since we agree that speech has power and carries with it the possibility of danger, someone has to decide which speech is dangerous and which speech is not. I say that society bears this responsibility, not the government (E_: this also relates to your question about policing ideas).

BTW, I'm flattered that Reverend Bailey is obsessed with me. I'm just disappointed that his post is so irrational and full of hate -- it really gets in the way of friendly discussion. What I can't figure out is, why does he think I'm White?

2/15/2006 03:29:00 PM  
Blogger James W. Bailey said...

Dear Anonymous,

"This james bailey character is a nutcase"

Takes one to know one.

Dear Art Soldier,

"why does he think I'm White?"

Are you serious?!

James

2/15/2006 03:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well, maybe it's that wierd little painting of a white guy next to all your posts.

2/15/2006 03:34:00 PM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

first and only warning folks...take the personal jabs and descriptions elsewhere please. James and anonymous, this means you two mostly. Otherwise the comments come down.

2/15/2006 03:35:00 PM  
Blogger Edna said...

The suggestion that only actions incited by speech are dangerous (and not speech alone) troubles me, too.

While I don't agree with everything Art Soldier is saying (for example, I think he needs to define "obviously dangerous," which is a clearly matter of perception -unless you use historic examples, which aren't applicable across the board), I basically see where he's coming from. I agree that society bears the responsibility to decide when speech is dangerous (and to what extent), at least on a civic level - which is what we're talking about here.

Aren't we also entitled to nondiscriminatory treatment in the press, both in addition to and resulting from free speech?

2/15/2006 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger James W. Bailey said...

Dear Edward,

I respect your blog. For the record I have never called anyone a name on your site or suggested on your site in any way that someone is filled with hate because of a post they've made on another blog. I always address people with Dear and I always put my name to my comments. That's the way my mother raised me.

James

2/15/2006 03:47:00 PM  
Blogger Edward_ said...

you're fine James, but your "takes one to know one" retort might escalate into a back and forth I want to avoid. Thanks for the nice words about the blog...

e

2/15/2006 03:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are right, I'm sorry, I will behave. Thanks for hosting this forum Edward.

2/15/2006 04:05:00 PM  
Blogger James W. Bailey said...

Dear Edward,

I probably shouldn't have said that. Passions run hot on this issue. I believe everyone is expressing a sincere point of view. I apologize to anonymous for the retort. It's not my intent, or desire, to get banned from commenting here by pushing the envelope with my comments on your blog. Many of us who have commented on this subject on your site have our own blogs and all of us are aware of what others have written. Again, I think you have a wonderful blog and I fully understand and respect what you're trying to achieve. This dialogue is important.

James

2/15/2006 04:08:00 PM  
Anonymous ML said...

Now that the boys are being nice, does anyone know why Walter Robinson still featuring Finch? Is this a blackmail situation, a kindred spirit situation? Edna, any revelations?

I actually emailed W after the Elizabeth Murray "review" - I admit I am not an avid fan of her work. One in a large show is invigorating - a whole show of them, a bit much for my personal taste. But the review was vicious. Vacuous and vicious.

His "honesty" and "bluntness" to me seem hollow and unpleasant. I don't mind intelligent criticism which disagrees with my own thinking but Finch's puffed prose offers no redeeming value.

And sorry, I hadn't read Tyler Green's blog equating Finch's attitudes with Saltz's commenting that4 out of 5 Chelsea shows are male - my telephone line had squirrel problems over the weekend.

2/15/2006 04:11:00 PM  
Anonymous pc said...

Art Soldier and Edna,

I'm getting confused. What are you suggesting? Should some kinds of speech be curtailed (Charlie?) or should people be allowed to say anything? Please state in a sentence or two what you think. I think I've made it clear what I think (and Edward has, too).

Edna, of course speech, books, utterences, art, magazines, etc., have enourmous power. Are you saying any outlet with power is dangerous?

2/15/2006 04:12:00 PM  
Blogger Art Soldier said...

PC: I'm suggesting that Free Speech is a legal institution established in the 1st Amendment that should be protected at all costs. I would be willing to die for that right. Since Free Speech is a legal distinction, thankfully allowing citizens to say whatever they want without fear of governmental punishment, it has nothing to do with ethical responsibility.

The ethics of particular uses of speech should be determined by society and never by government. Therefore, I'm arguing that we can question the ethical dangers of Finch's article without concerning ourselves with the concept of Free Speech. That is, of course he has the right to say it, we just think he's a pig for doing so! We find his speech dangerous to women everywhere (because it encourages and mobilizes misogyny) and hope to curb it, but the government should mind its own f*cking business...

2/15/2006 04:25:00 PM  
Anonymous David said...

James, I believe a more appropriate Cheap Trick tune for an art blog is "I Want You To Want Me". Good theme song for the whole art business, don't you think?

2/15/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Blogger James W. Bailey said...

Dear ML,

I have to leave in a minute for an art opening I have tonight, so I'll state this and have to leave it at that.

Based upon my communications with Mr. Robinson, I think it would be fair to say that he's not exactly a huge fan of the art blogosphere. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think that would be a fair statement. He also appears to me to hold anonymous bloggers in an even lesser light (Edward, I want to make it very clear that I am absolutely not directing that statement toward any blogger(s).) I think he's probably very much old school in the sense that if you have an opinion, then put your name on it. Again, these are impressions I gathered from communicating with him and Mr. Finch. Personally, I'm of the same school, but that's just me too.

James

P.S. David, I absolutely agree. "I Want You To Want Me" is a hymn to postmodernism. :)

2/15/2006 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger Edna said...

I believe in free speech. Finch has the right to say whatever he wants. I have the right to say that I'd like to shut him up, and I have the right to try to do it as long as I don't infringe on his personal liberties. He has the right to keep being a sexist pig and not give a shit, which I am sure he will exercise.

Yes, I think powerful outlets are potentially dangerous, but not in themselves. People are dangerous. Speech can be dangerous. Abuse comes in many forms and does not always have a corresponding amendment to cover its ass.

2/15/2006 05:10:00 PM  
Blogger Edna said...

Oh, and I believe that this is the most exciting season of American Idol. Those twins! What weirdos! I can't believe the remarks they made to the judges. I bet there was a bunch more stuff that was edited out. Should we lobby for the missing tapes?

2/15/2006 05:23:00 PM  
Anonymous bambino said...

Edna,

they were soooo annoying, damnnnn

2/15/2006 05:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My comments: I'm the different anon--the poetry one.
My opinion: Finch cracks a word. His is a swagger that cannot be beat. He writes the truth. A good writer understands the best way to get the lines moving ‘alive’ is not to worry so much about the content. When the content is clear, obvious, real, you can work on the prose to give whatever you are writing legs.

It's well-known Finch's interventions with artist's careers, mostly because he writes that, or you have a friend who has witnessed some of these manipulations (the horror). Finch writes about the slimy art word in which he participates, but doesn't control. He writes with legs. Stuck between them, I'm sure a head is in deep sorrow.

2/15/2006 08:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Edward-
I realize I'm joining the fray quite late, but I cannot let your original post pass without comment where it concerns conflict of interest. In Portland we have the dubious pleasure of www.portlandart.net (or PORT), which I see you have listed in "Websites You Should Know". Despite being "dedicated to catalyzing critical discussion" PORT has an incredible conflict of
interest involving the main critic, Jeff Jahn, and the site designer (Armbrust), developers (Bovee & husband), and other writers (Peterson). PORT's designer (Armbrust) is also owns Motel Gallery, whose exhibitions regularly receive rave reviews ("A superb showing by one of Portland's finest up-and-comers"). The site developers (Bovee +) are artists whose work got favorable mention in a "Best of
2005" review on PORT from Jahn (he has also curated Bovee's work into his exhibitions). The site has even hosted comments from Jahn concerning his OWN shows (regarding a solo exhibition of sculpture at Gallery 500 last August, he wrote, "Since I juried the coming September show [at Gallery 500], it had better have
some nuance after these carnivals." Jahn's shows also get starred listings and reviews ("featuring 13 of the freshest emerging artists from across the
nation...From what I've seen so far, this should be a good 'un.")
Why do I repeat all this? Because it's worth noting that, in a one-and-a-half horse town like Portland, vowing to simply not read what aggravates you is not
enough. PORT is Portland's web-based critique of local art, and it's totally unreliable and unethical, thus worthless. Yet, Jahn and his friends wield a lot of
power in this town, just like Finch does his. Should Finch be fired? Should PORT be shut down? No. But enough people should open their eyes to what's going on, and they should SPEAK UP.

2/15/2006 08:10:00 PM  
Blogger Edna said...

Bambino! The twins went to jail!!!

2/15/2006 09:00:00 PM  
Anonymous MP said...

I am against censorship. I do think, though, that Finch's opinions, such as they are, come with the tacit support of the institution of Artnet, and therefore carry undue authority. This is the story of all NON-INSTITUTIONALIZED discrimination, and must be met not with censorship, but with a firestorm of dissent. from JD

I totally agree. The best thing would be for this drama to keep growing and hit the big news sources, to continue the firestorm of dissent, because that is how people learn what is going on so they can change it. I've told several people in the art world about this thing with Finch and none had even heard about it. But they were disgusted and angered.

If Charlie Finch wrote pieces on, let's say, Glenn Ligon, Lorna Simpson and Dread Scott that discussed whether or not they have ashy skin or relaxed hair, do you think he would get away with it? Especially if his pieces on white artists never included such blatant references to race? If he said that Kara Walker's work was "a bloated abomination that resembles Jabba the Hut on an off day" (a quote from his EM piece), do you think people would say "Finch cracks a word. His is a swagger that cannot be beat. He writes the truth. A good writer understands the best way to get the lines moving ‘alive’ is not to worry so much about the content. When the content is clear, obvious, real, you can work on the prose to give whatever you are writing legs." (from Anon) I don't think so. Its absurd that the marginalization of women is seen as "opinion" and marginalization of minorities, Jews, etc is considered discriminatory and wrong. Listen, I hate Elizabeth Murray's work too, but at least I can back it up with some reasons. I'm all for critics being taking weak work to task, provided they support their views with reasoning.

The issue here really shouldn't involve censorship, or even getting Finch fired. I think we all know that there are plenty of his type out there to take his place. The issue should be that women who make and write about art fight for EQUAL access to news and info outlets to express an alternative to this kind of vacuous drivel, which would further expose it as such. That is why it is so important that writers like Edna, who speak honestly about the REALITY of the art world and it's discrimination (against not only women, minorities, etc, but also against for example, emerging artists over 35), have a voice in major publications. There are many inequalities that as part of the art community, we just accept because, "hey, it's just the way it is," or "I don't want to piss anyone off or ruin my chances at a career" or it just seems impossible to change. I was at the Feminisms talk that set off the Tamy Ben-Tor firestorm, and I think this situation just proves that the younger generation needs to get off our asses and do something about inequality in the art world instead of pretending it doesn't exist. Or, alternatively, pretend and then report back in 10 years and let us know if you were right.

If 60% of art school grads are women and only 15% of solo shows in Chelsea are of women, we clearly aren't speaking loudly enough.

One more thing---why is it that many people on the boards applaud Finch's writing as "real" or "raw" or an "accurate picture of the art world." How does anyone know any of these stories are true? I'd like to hear Natalie Frank's version. Like James Frey, Charlie Finch writes impossible-to-believe, totally unverified stories to create a self-aggrandizing mythology of street credibility and lived experience. It's all very dramatic and exciting, but how much of it is bullshit?

Thanks, Edward, for hosting this great blog. I read it all the time.

2/15/2006 11:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh for gods sake. dont you people have anything else to do in life?
finch's work is offensive drivel. cant they fucking hire someone more interesting at artnet??
he's simply not qualified to do his job and should be fired for THAT. not for his views. end of story.

2/16/2006 02:04:00 AM  
Anonymous another anon said...

mp, that was a righteous rant. right on.

2/16/2006 07:48:00 AM  
Anonymous pc said...

"oh for gods sake. dont you people have anything else to do in life?"

No.

"The issue should be that women who make and write about art fight for EQUAL access to news and info outlets to express an alternative to this kind of vacuous drivel, which would further expose it as such."

This makes some sense, but it's more fun to talk about Finch!

2/16/2006 09:18:00 AM  
Anonymous bob said...

I always thought Finch gave the underdogs (women and minorities) a balanced treatment given the pitfalls and complexities of the artworld (eg. cant remember her name, shes african american and painted japanese geishas in blackface). He was sympathetic to the works strengths and cautious about chelseas response. As for his dislikes, thats probably informed more by how that person climbed up the artworld ladder. Calling him sexist is too easy.

2/17/2006 05:00:00 AM  

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