When It's Over: Open Thread
Dennis notes on his blog that one of their artists decided to cancel an upcoming exhibition planned for the spring, essentially leaving the gallery. All I know about that particular case is what he posted, but this advice that he offered, I'll second:Note to LA people: when severing a relationship, please refrain from doing so over the phone a few days prior to my trip to LA. In person is where it's at.Of course that cuts both ways. There's a good way to end the relationship on both sides, and the best way, whenever possible, is always in person. Especially when it means that scheduled exhibitions or other such activities will need to be canceled.
Whenever we ask an artist to join the gallery, we're very up front about our thoughts on this. Our advice to the artist is always, "If Larry Gagosian [or whoever] comes knocking, don't give it a second's thought...do what you know in your heart is right for your career. We'll understand, and we'll continue to like you and support your work. But if it doesn't work out with that other dealer, don't assume that your slot in our gallery will be waiting for you. It may not be."
I think that's fair. As an emerging gallery, you expect some of your artists to be snatched away by more established galleries. If you play it right, that can even be seen as a feather in your cap. But there is a disheartening aspect to having invested time and money into an artist just to see them move on once they've reached the point where that investment might begin to pay off. There's also, clearly, a disheartening aspect to having worked with a gallery as an artist and have them end that relationship. In the end, that's what the arrangement is...a relationship, and damned personal one at that.
Dealers talk about this issue all the time, by the way. Both sides of it. How to end the relationship with an artist who turns out not to be a good match for the program, and how to respond when an artist decides they feel the program is no longer a good match for them. We've been on both sides of that at our gallery. Neither position is easy (for artist or dealer), and although I think I'm learning to handle it better, I'm aware I've made some horrible mistakes in the past. I'm working on responding better moving forward.
A famous instance of an artist moving from the gallery that had built his (now) phenomenal career was discussed at a meeting of dealers I was in not too long ago. The dealer was very open about how it stung, but very impressively had only good things to say about the artist. Not burning bridges is very important I think. Even if, as an artist, you can't see yourself ever working with that gallery again, folks in the art world often change careers, from dealers to consultants to curators to museum directors to magazine editors to whatever...the one thing I've learned is you can never predict who is going to be incredibly powerful in a few year's time, so it's good to keep everything civil. More than that though, clearly, whether or artist or dealer, at one time you were very fond of each other...don't let the reasons you're deciding to split make you throw all that away. End the relationship professionally and take away, as much as possible, positive memories. And, if possible, continue to support each other.
Consider this an open thread.
posted by Edward_ at
9:12 AM
55 Comments:
That's a very good attitude of approaching things. We don't expressly say if someone else comes knocking go for it - but our artists know we will do what's best for their careers, if it means being cherry picked by a bigger gallery, so be it.
I shared with Dennis that we had an artist that left in the worst way - someone who we'd worked very hard for 2 years to promote her work and the reason she gave when she left was that one of her art students said that our gallery website "sucked." I hope that wasn't the real reason, but the fact that she didn't feel comfortable enough to be honest that she had another opportunity really showed her lack of trust in us. Was that our fault somehow? We'll never know - she didn't like to communicate. She even tried to take back her work through our intern when we were out of town. She was very anti-social and shy, but I would think you would owe it to a gallery that's invested in you to leave things in the best way possible. "Thanks for everything. Good luck" - how hard is that?
All very wise thoughts. Thanks for expressing them.
Hey Stephen
I'm thinking about making Bill the next artist of the week...you wouldn't happen to have any images you're about to post to your site, would ya?
I just left my gallery and my thoughts are, from an artist standpoint, to keep the personal & the business ends as separate as possible. Business is business, you know? I left because i was not being paid for work that sold last spring. I felt I could not trust the dealer. I am still owed some money. He kept promising "i love your work, i support your work, but i can't pay you right now". I hear about this kind of situation from artists all the time - that dealers hold onto the money from work sold as some kind of loan and then parcel it out. Is this normal/acceptable practice? In my case I know the work had been paid in full from the get-go. I was actually in the gallery when the money was wired. I just wanted a dealer's perspective on my situation.
Is this normal/acceptable practice?
In my opinion, no. Twice in our 4 1/2 years we have not paid an artist the full amount right away. In both instances we asked the artist if that was OK first. Every other piece we've ever sold we've paid in full within two weeks of receiving the money. Personally, I don't see the money as belonging to the gallery, so it's not the gallery's to parcel out as they see fit.
Contracts are your best defense against this sort of thing. Each time you give your gallery work, ask for a consignment form that outlines the payment schedule. That will vary per gallery, but any gallery that insists it needs more than 90 days to pay you in full you might want to reconsider.
Like all businesses, galleries can have serious cash flow problems. One month you're rolling in it, the next you're pawning your TV set. It's OK for a gallery to ask an artist to allow them to schedule payments (but only if the artist agrees) in my opinion, but that should be an extraordinary exception and not the rule.
Bottom line for me is, it's the artist's money. If they're cool with letting the gallery schedule payments (and there are reasons that can work the artist's advantage as well, such as ensuring your gallery can take your work to an art fair, etc.), that's great. But if an artist needs the money or even just wants the money, the terms of the contract must be met. Anything else, in my opinion, is bad business.
Of course, this is all very easy for me to say...I've never been on the point of eviction or whatever.
Still it's how we've done business so far and what we will do moving forward.
That is totally unacceptable for a gallery to steal from Peter to pay Paul. For us, we usually try not to mention it was sold until we receive full payment either because we could get screwed by the collector or they need quite a bit of time to pay. We are very lucky that we have an excellent bookkeeper who keeps us on track with everything and sends checks out as soon as we are fully paid. I can't speak for others though, but that's how we work things.
that's what i thought. thank you. and i totally understand about not paying the artist until the collector has paid up - of course. the gallery that i left had other problems too - numerous errors/unprofessionalism - so i finally couldn't take it anymore. it's been a good learning experience i guess, if upsetting.
how do you all feel about written contracts? are they necessary?
how do you all feel about written contracts? are they necessary?
It depends. Lawyers, of course, will argue that they're good. But I find them somewhat disruptive, and I've heard of artists who signed 5-year contracts (or whatever) who were miserable and wanted out of them.
We don't sign contracts that obligate the artist to work with us for any length of time. We sign individual consignment forms that serve to track inventory and pricing and the terms of sales for both the gallery and the artist. There's usually a date on that consignment form, but it only applies to the work listed on it, not other work by the artist. We find this is the most flexible way to protect both the artist and the gallery.
When you start to deal with art that's 6 digits in price, however, more detailed contracts are probably a good idea.
Wow, could I go on about not getting paid, without a scene (I coulda' been an actor) and lost work. But everyone has had some experience. Many artists set themselves up. They're desperate to get a gallery at any cost and the contract may as well be in Greek. I love Greece by the way. la's experience is quite common. I've witnessed some comical gallerist/artist displays.
thanks ed for your perspective on contracts. it seems very sane. would the consignment form's "terms of payment" specify a timeframe for the artist to be paid after the collector-to-gallery part of the sale is complete? Like 30 days or something?
would the consignment form's "terms of payment" specify a timeframe for the artist to be paid after the collector-to-gallery part of the sale is complete? Like 30 days or something?
Yes. But the clock starts ticking after the gallery receives the money. There are deposit delays (expecially with checks and especially with foreign checks) and such that make a 30 day schedule reasonable. Even up to a 90 day schedule is understandable, although at that point I think the gallery's not being as pro-artist as it can/should be.
When you start to deal with art that's 6 digits in price, however, more detailed contracts are probably a good idea.
I assume you're talking about six digits to the left of the decimal point?
On a serious note, thanks for this advice Ed. It's all common sense, but seeing it articulated transforms it into a pearl of wisdom. Thanks!
On the keeping business/personal as separate as possible... it really depends on what's a good fit for you. If you want a long term relationship with a gallery who is interested in your long-term career, I would think you would want to trust them on a more personal level because you'd want to know that they have your interests on just theirs - in mind. However, the 'business is business' attitude works fine for many galleries who have a revolving door of art and artists or for artists in the early stages of their careers. I would think you'd be a little more vulnerable to get screwed that way since the relationship is so impersonal, though.
thank you for all the practical advice. i don't regret leaving my gallery for a second :)
on the business/personal - i guess my view is not to use the "personal relationship" as an excuse to not pay the artist or treat them subpar in any way - with guilt trips etc. i would hear so much extraneous info from my old dealer - like "i put x amount of dollars into this space and i'm not selling blah blah" and gossip about other artists (sometimes negative) that were also represented by the gallery. it was a weird relationship. bad. i felt like because he was my 'friend' he thought it was ok for him to tell me all this crap. so i guess i am leery about how to handle my next gallery relationship. i am most definitely going to be WAY more careful about this stuff going forward.
It sound like they were really trying to exploit the personal side, then. They should not burden you with their problems. Granted, it's very very expensive and difficult to run a gallery and things fall through the cracks often, but a good relationship in my view is when an artist can voice their concerns (in a helpful way - not in an 'your trying to screw me get your act together' way) and those concerns being responded to by the gallery. Sometimes galleries just need a gentle nudge. [Although, others need a swift kick in the pants.]
"Edward, I really liked your lines: I'm aware I've made some horrible mistakes in the past. I'm working on responding better moving forward." Looking back some of these lessons are hard to learn at the time but there's really no better way.
"She was very anti-social and shy, but I would think you would owe it to a gallery that's invested in you to leave things in the best way possible."
I'm sure dealers have a lot of 'crazy artist' stories. But maybe that's for another thread ('are most artists at least a little insane?'). To be fair, as the example above shows some dealers are too.
Do dealers secretly find crazy-ape-bonker artists to be kind of charming? I imagine it gets really old really fast though.
I've wondered if dealers look for weird nutty artists on purpose. Sometimes I feel like I've suffered a little for being too normal, too easy to work with. I get trampled. Just today I was wondering if I need to be more of a bitch - isn't that scary?
Is it really OK to give a gallery a "swift kick in the pants?" Somehow I always feel that I should be grateful, and it stops me from sticking up for myself.
guess my view is not to use the "personal relationship" as an excuse to not pay the artist or treat them subpar in any way - with guilt trips etc.
Again, this is very tricky. We like to think we're all (gallerists and artists) in this venture together, but I realize sometimes that I'm better off keeping some thoughts to myself. I think it's very good that many of our artists are friends with each other...I'm sure they bitch about us behind our backs, which is normal and healthy...goodness knows Josh and I have once or twice complained about an artist between ourselves.
But that's no different from any other "family" in the end. What's important is that there are channels of communication that everyone can use to keep small greivances from growing into serious problems. We're not always good at that ourselves, Josh and I, but, again, we're working on it.
I've wondered if dealers look for weird nutty artists on purpose. Sometimes I feel like I've suffered a little for being too normal, too easy to work with. I get trampled. Just today I was wondering if I need to be more of a bitch - isn't that scary?
This is honestly the first time I've ever heard that notion. Being a bitch certainly won't endear you to your gallery. Being yourself is always your best approach, whether that be bitchy or nice. It's up to your gallery to deal with who you really are. If you're normally nice, but feel you're not getting the attention you need, nicely tell your gallery that. Ask the dealer to come over to your studio or for coffee (somewhere outside the gallery) and air your greivances. It's good for both of you. But be yourself in doing so. Why I keep insisting on that is what you cannot afford to lose in such dealings is mutual trust. Most folks can see through acting, which will eventually kill that trust. Nice people can get what they need too. I wouldn't recommend a kick in the pants though. Being straightforward and respectful is better. If your dealer isn't hearing you, tell them "I was hoping for a better understanding than this."
Bear in mind always though, that even though the squeaky wheel gets the oil, the squeaky wheel is also really annoying. Ask for what you need, but do so as yourself. If you're not being heard, then consider another gallery.
Having worked at galleries (both as full and part time staff) and worked with dealers as an artist, I've seen (or dealt with) myriad artist/dealer relationships.
Though I've heard many payment/consignment horror stories, I've witnessed nothing of the sort (just lucky, I guess). What did distress me was the two-faced nature of so many relationships. At one gallery, where I worked "behind the curtain" as a framer/installer/preparator, I found myself in the peculiar position of being both the artists' buddy and the gallerist's sounding board. Both camps would let loose about the other, sometimes in language unfit for this distinguished company.
That said, this particular dealer worked her/his ass off for all represented artists and, generally, I thought the artists treated the dealer with less respect than she/he deserved. In the eyes of the artists, the dealer was a friend when she/he would take them out to dinner/drinks, but otherwise the relationship was just one more juggling act of formal pretense, social ettiquette and ill will...a parasitic dynamic rather than a symbiotic one.
We artists tend to romanticize the dealer/artist relationships of yesteryear - Leo Castelli is considered something of a saint, is he not? - but finding the perfect balance of understanding buddy and consumate salesperson is difficult. Hell, I'll be happy to find a dealer who I feel comfortable with. If I can walk into the exhibition space and help the dealer install the show while enjoying a few beers and some good bull, I'm likely to be pretty content, especially if I get the sense that he/she is pushing the work.
Lastly - how I do drone on - I appreciate your generous talk with new gallery artists, Edward, but I think artists are beginning to favor dealer stability (assuming the relationship doesn't sour and that both sides are pulling their weight). Afterall, these days a gallery's success is as hit-or-miss as an individual artist's. Sure, if Mary Boone comes along to sweep you off your feet (and into her boudoir), that's one thing - though I think even this situation merits a thinking cap (oh, the potential naughty puns) - but most gallery transitions are baby steps and often one step forward can be two backward.
I was being facetious with the "kick in the pants" thing, but their really are some scumbag dealers out there, and with those folks you need to stick up for yourself or leave the relationship. The danger is assuming that your dealer is a scumbag and treating them as such. Trust also involves giving the benefit of the doubt.
Contracts are your best defense against this sort of thing.
I'm glad to hear this... When I was in grad school (a year ago), we students were chatting about doing business with galleries. I suggested that a good letter-of-understanding would go far in preventing misunderstandings with a gallery. (I haven't had much experience with galleries, but I do know how to make a business deal).
The instructor who was leading the discussion, an artist of national reputation, said that this isn't how things are done in the art-world; agreements are done verbally and that to ask for something in paper would be gauche. ("Yikes," I thought... "I guess I'm going to be gauche."
All good advice. I'd never advocate a bitchy attitude (it was just a thought that occurred to me, and actually freaked me out a little), but once a dealer knows your personality they do factor it into everything, good or bad. 'Let's go ahead and bump so-and-so, he/she will understand...' Not always the person you want to be.
Or am I confused - if you're bumped/slighted/excluded - is it because they don't believe in your work? I guess there are many possible reasons.
By "nutty" I didn't mean difficult; no one wants to work with a jerk or a squeaky wheel. And no one should act a part in an effort to alter a relationship, personal or business. I guess my beef is that a lot of artists are incredibly disrespectful, both to their gallerist's face and behind their back, yet many of them manage to have careers. I don't want to be one of them, but it does get tiring watching their antics prove successful.
Hell, I'll be happy to find a dealer who I feel comfortable with.
HH, thanks for the insights. I'm at a point in my career that I'd definitely like to have a steady relationship with a gallery. But I'm still working out how and when to jump into offers that come along. How much do you settle? How much do you hold out for? Your articulation has helped give some form to the mushy mix of fear, ambition, caution, and courage swirling around in my brain.
On a lighter note, I never knew you had a thing for Mary Boone.
re above:
as a dealer i have had two artists leave recently one a lateral move i feel and the other for a mega-dealer. i will say this does hurt both emotionally and and financially. i find it almost impossible to separate business and friendship with our artists.
as far as the financial goes well i am glad to have owned a bunch of work and as far as the emotional goes well that’s what therapists are for. and as far as paying artists is concerned we always pay within 30 days of being paid by the buyer. ed thank you for this topic!
The instructor who was leading the discussion, an artist of national reputation, said that this isn't how things are done in the art-world;
You do want to be careful about how you do this. What I suggest is when you first bring any work into the gallery, bring along a consignment form with all the details, prices, terms, etc. Tell the dealer (especially if the relationship is new) that this represents the terms you prefer to work with, but you understand they may have their own terms and you're happy to work to a mutual understanding, but that you really need a document for your own records. We have a standard template for consignments and will take the artist's form and, time permitting, enter in into our template, making any changes necessary (and the sorts of changes usually involve duration of contract, percentages, etc.). The template we use is pretty standard though. I'd recommend considering the following be part of the template:
1. details of piece, title, year, medium, size, edition size, price structure (if it's an edition, how does the price progress)
2. length of consignment (usually in months with a caveat "unless a mutually agreed upon later date")
3. what leeway the gallery has in discounting the work before they have to check with the artist (this is important to get in writing, IMO).
4. what the terms of payment are (how long after payment is received from collector should artist expect to wait for full payment)
5. what the terms for third party exhibitions/sales are (i.e., can the gallery reconsign the work...sometimes this is very good for an artist, sometimes not).
6. insurance details...what's expected, including travel...who pays what.
7. framing details, again who pays what.
8. if the duration is open ended, how far in advance the artist should notify the dealer he/she wants the work back (to give the dealer time to close any pending deals). If the dealer does close the deal (and pays), you can't have the work back, so think carefully about this.
9. special issues
If a dealer says that's not the way they do things, that it's all verbal and based on trust, insist that without this form, your own record keeping system gets too confusing for you. Do this gently. Ask them to do it for you, as a favor. Don't be embarassed and don't act as if there's any reason the dealer should be embarassed. It's just a form of record keeping and it will certainly benefit both sides down the road.
As an artist, I want a good artist/gallery relationship and I agree with Ed, communication is the key. Artist like to know were they stand with a gallery and what's happening with the gallery. It isn't good for an artist to hear about gallery business second hand. I do want to feel apart of a gallery that represents me. I have had the experience of trying to communicate with a gallery and not having any response. It can start to make one paranoid.
as a dealer i have had two artists leave recently one a lateral move i feel and the other for a mega-dealer. i will say this does hurt both emotionally and and financially.
I hear ya, blackdog. For all we say we understand, it's still like a kick to the family jewels.
What keeps me from tossing my teddy is the appreciation that it feels probably much worse the other way around.
I have had the experience of trying to communicate with a gallery and not having any response. It can start to make one paranoid.
Guilty as charged.
my bad...my very, very bad...
working on it...I swear.
The other aspect not mentioned is that, at least for emerging/underrecognized artists, the dealer-artist relationship is not equal. The dealer has the make or break power. And there are many many more artists than there are galleries. This makes honesty a little more difficult, diplomacy much more so. I, unfortunately, have less diplomatic skills than most.
Gosh, when I read that line, "Note to LA people:" I thought,"Boy, what a jerk. I would have left too."
You have to ask yourself what would make an artist, with a New York show imminent, back out at the last minute by phone from across the country when a studio visit is only a week away. Maybe it is because even the gallerist's emails piss you off and make you wonder if the guy has ever been west of the Hudson River. New York provincialism may be very charming at home, but, at this point, it seems like smelly socks from out here.
Tim,
There's a generic truth in what you say, but Dennis is an extremely nice person...I don't think it's fair to project so much onto his statement. He is in LA frequently (quite frequently), and not at all provincial.
at least for emerging/underrecognized artists, the dealer-artist relationship is not equal. The dealer has the make or break power.
This is so true. There are many things that my galleries do that annoy me and that I think are discourteous (and just bad business) but I pick my battles. If I bring up every point that I'm unhappy with, I'm afraid that I'll seem like too much trouble. I'm probably too insecure, but I know that there are a hundred artists waiting to take my place if I should leave.
Also, about this "friends" business: I show regularly with 5 galleries, with some of these relationships going back about 8 years. I don't consider any of them real friends; it's a business relationship. FriendLY, sure, but why should we pretend to be actual friends? I think this is naive.
Also, about this "friends" business: I show regularly with 5 galleries, with some of these relationships going back about 8 years. I don't consider any of them real friends; it's a business relationship. FriendLY, sure, but why should we pretend to be actual friends?
Some dealers and artist actually are friends, though. That's not to say you should expect to become close friends with your dealer, or think anything's wrong with your standing in the gallery if you don't. There are huge advantages to keeping the relationship strictly professional, but there are some folks you meet in life who you naturally become friends with and would rather hang out with than other people. If that happens with your gallerists, I certainly wouldn't advocate not getting close to them for some semblance of professionalism. That strikes me as masochistic.
We run a small gallery and exhibit artists that we are "friendly" with that we may or may not work with again. Several of our stable of artists we consider friends. Not all of them, only about 4 or 5. If they leave us or if we decide not to show them, I'm sure feelings would be hurt but we'd respect each other in the process. We like it this way.
There are many things that my galleries do that annoy me and that I think are discourteous (and just bad business) but I pick my battles.
That describes many relationships, I'd venture. Considering the amount of collective ego any gallery represents (dealers and artists combined), it's not surprising there are differences of opinions on what's bad business or what's discourteous. Each artist in any gallery more than likely would change some aspect of the operation. Unfortunately, it's often impossible to give each what they'd prefer. There simply aren't the resources often. I'm assuming, if you're in 5 galleries, that you're selling rather well, Anon. Use that bargaining chip to decrease the amount of annoyance you feel you're tolerating if it's unbearable.
You probably have more power than you think.
Well, it's bearable. But actually, I'm not selling that well lately. I haven't cashed in on this supposed huge art boom going on. My galleries never drop me because of it, so I'm grateful for that, but I sometimes wonder if they just kind of leave me to languish in the rack room.
But actually, I'm not selling that well lately. I haven't cashed in on this supposed huge art boom going on.
Just keep whistpering this to yourself again and again: christopher wool...christopher wool...
if that doesn't help, consider a flirtation with another medium...seriously...often it can jump start gaining you more attention...at least it will get folks who've started taking you for granted to perk up a bit. If you paint, do a series on paper. If you sculpt, do some stop animation. If you're doing video, make some collages...you know this already, I'm sure, and there's no guarantees, obviously, but I have seen this work wonders for folks.
Having worked at galleries I agree that the gallery is ill advised to think of 100% of the money as the galleries, but really money is the linchpin of all gallery/artist relationships. That relationship is built on trust from both sides of the fence - the problem is the artist is usually emotional about the financial side and the gallery more dispassionate about the money - because they deal with sums of money more often than the artist does. (they are also in the position of selling art everyday while the artist is in the business of producing it).
On the same side the artists usually do very little to stay on top of inventory or work sent out - this poor business practice is viewed more often as the galleries fault - when good communication could easily enhance trust between artist and gallery. I've always thought that this would make the gallery/artist relationship better and more profitable in the long run.
What's the story with Christopher Wool? Was he unpopular for a long time, then successful?
Also, Matthew L, what do you mean that the artist is often not on top of inventory or work sent out? You mean they don't keep the gallery supplied with new work?
No, I mean they dont keep reciepts of accepted artworks, or stay on top of the gallery as to how many pieces are available, what the cost might be if prices have gone up over time, etc.. I know this sounds like basic business stuff, but you would be surprised how little of it gets done by artists. By the way - it's a two way street - galleries have to be good about it as well.
Frankly anyone who deals with collectors deserves more than 50%. Changing minds, very slow payment, the ass-kissing expected. Definitely more than 50%. And then the financial insecurity. Most artists just don't understand what goes into a successful gallery.
I appreciate the support ML, and the job is certainly not for the squeamish...and in Matisse's heyday, many dealers took 75% of sales, so progess has been made, but I think it's got to go even more the other way a bit actually...at least if the market stays as strong as it is or until dealers start giving living artists a percentage of resale deals. There's no reason to my mind that everyone except the artist should profit off their work.
There are many ways that a dealer can make it worth an artist's while to split the sales 50/50...so I'm not calling for a lesser split here and now...(and the "financial insecurity" [that's an adorable euphemism for the sheer terror we feel at times, I must tell you] is only one reason why...there's an incredibly number of expenses in running a space for which any given month you may not sell a thing on exhibit), but it's obscene to watch a piece at auction fetch 10 times what the artist was paid for it, IMO.
Don't get me started...
Oh please do get started. Why, for instance, does a movie copyright cover resale - viewing the movie, renting the movie, buying the cd, but reselling art does not bring in royalties/percentages for the artist? My suggestion is that artists should display their originals but sell only photographs of their work and keep the originals. A nice conceptual spin.
You might be on to something there ML...but given the limited studio space most artists have, there's a practical matter to "getting the work out there" you'll need to account for.
Also, prices would drop considerably.
In a way (horror of horrors) this is what Thomas Kinkade does - dups of originals get mass marketed. And while the price for each dup is lower than an original, many dups are made. So a bad idea for an entire career but still a fun idea for a tongue in cheek show.
Have any artists been paid with a check on a closed account? I have and it stinks. I keep it in my studio to remind me of the unprofessionalism.....no, fraud out there.
(Don't worry New Yorkers, it happened in your 6th borough)
Most of this discussion has been about the artist leaving a gallery. How many shenanigans should a gallery take from an artist before dumping them especially if the gallery truly believes in their work. I.E., trying to sell work without asking for it back first; being dishonest about exhibition offers received,etc...
late bloomer,
Good question. It really depends. Because the relationship depends on mutual trust, the examples you cite do as much to destroy that trust as not paying on time, etc., so I'm glad you brought those up.
I have some strong ideas about this, but am not quite willing to share them (yet, anyway). What do others (dealers or artists) think about an artist selling work behind the gallery's back when clearly the gallery was expecting to sell that work or at least get a commission on any sale out of the studio? (There are many reasons a gallery has a right to expect that, in my opinion, including that the collector saw the work in the gallery...that that was the terms of the agreement to work together...that the gallery advertised the work widely, exhibited it at artfairs, sent out countless packages, etc., all of which costs a small fortune...etc.)
thoughts?
i totally agree with the premise of open honest communication. if an artist sold a piece out of the studio and the agreement was that the gallery would get a percentage of those sales (plus being able to say you are represented by a ny gallery has its own value) then i would say i would probably end the relationship,
kinda like your girlfriend/boyfriend cheating on you.
anyway this is easier to say than to do and as always in mutually beneficial relationships it comes down to who needs who more at that given moment.
christopher wool, hes always been amazingly successful, financially and curatorially. i dont get it.
hmmmm...
I was sure it was Christopher Wool...perhaps I'm mixing him up with someone else...my bad.
Point is though, that many artists go through dry spells and then come out with great careers afterward...keep the faith.
yes, but women have to wait until they are around 70/80 for this to happen if they are good, guys it happens when they are 50. a generalization i k now but kind of true.
Listen. How can you end things well with a dealer who lies to your face about sales, payments, where your work is, etc. What is the excuse for not giving a tally of works sold, to whom and for how much until a full year after the show is over, and only after much prodding on the part of the diligent and organized artist. How can I be expected to not spit in the face of the dealer who continues to give me checks that I am not allowed to cash for months at a time and who tried to pretend he only owed me half of what he really owed. And continues to hold hostage works of mine that I have asked to have back and in secret takes them to art fairs with me finding out only by googling myself on the internet. Please tell me, Ed, how can I take anything positive away from someone who has been lying and stalling and cheating for 2 years? I am happy to be rid of this stinker. I know artists can be "difficult" or "unstable" or "selfish" or whatever, and believe me I get how much passion and dedication goes into being a dealer, and I 100% believe dealers are like artists in this respect, but I cannot and will not put up with lies. Please. Dealers. Do us a favor and show the paperwork, make us feel secure about sales and the location of work. Be organized and honest. And I guarantee you will get loyalty and respect in return.
hi, I got screwed,
I appreciate your frustration, but you should start by not lumping all dealers in together. Most of the dealers I know don't behave as you're describing...so please don't spit in anyone's face.
Here's what we do. With each check we supply the name of the piece sold, the name of the collectors, what the sale price was, what the discount if any was, and exactly what the split between gallery and artist is. We don't supply the collector's contact info, but will give addresses for artist mailing list if asked (it's a matter of being lazy, not wanting to hide the contact info...but many collectors prefer the buffer between themselves and artists that galleries provide, so...it's a judgement call usually).
Some dealers are very firm about not giving out collector's names. I think that's a big mistake, but...different strokes.
With artists who sell a good deal, we find it helpful to sit down every now and then and compare notes, especially with editioned work.
A few of our artists have excellent databases of their work, where it is, what it's priced, etc. I recommend that to every artist. In the end, you are a business person...protect yourself like any other business person.
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